Part IV (The Index Fossil)

The overseas debate continues...

I just really don't think she gets it:

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About fundamentalism influencing politics: a few points:

 What about RELIGIOUS BELIEFS affecting politics? Is THAT allowed in your rulebook of what is allowed and isn't allowed to affect decision-making on a large scale? It is purely semantic if we're going to call religious beliefs fundamentalism or just religious beliefs. And just what kind of beliefs were used to write the first American lawbooks 200 years ago?  

It scares you and other liberals because you think that it will limit your freedom. The question is, freedom to do what? Of course I know the answer to that question. But my response is: at different times in history different kinds of behaviors (sexual and social) were acceptable or unacceptable. What these Xian folks believe in is making modern morals, as the pendulum swings left, more traditional. You think it's progress that gay people have rights and they think it's decadence of society. In a liberal society, either opinion is legitimate, as  is the ability to vote your way in order to express that.

You associate fundamentalism with a limit of your freedom and say that that's not what America is about. Yet, if the founding fathers were to arise from the dead it is quite possible that they would say, 'hey, that's not what we meant!" This has been a debate for years, what freedom is and what defines it and who and when. "Fundamentalism" is a type of religious belief and therefore it IS constitutional since there is freedom of religion in the US.

In answer to:

Think about this, if
Fundamentalist Christians had their way, you wouldn't have your
poli-sci degree from UCLA because a woman's supposed to be in the home
making babies and cooking dinner. Fundamentalist Christians are the

I think it's great that women can now get an education. Yet, do I think it's better for society? Not really. There are many feminists who think the same: the sexual revolution has in the end screwed women though it meant to free us. I can go on and on about why.

In answer to blowing up abortion clinics: I don't believe in destroying people's personal property for whatever reason or physically hurting or verbally insulting gay people for whatever reason. Don't think that every conservative person is going to do either of the above! It's possible to oppose both abortion and homosexuality and not oppress anyone.

About the sex with children: seventy years ago homosexuality was socially unacceptable. There have been times when it was (Athens, Greece in ancient times, for ex., SF now...). The question is what is acceptable goes according to societal standards and the current societal standard is utilitarianism, id est, if it doesn't "hurt" anyone, why not? Hurt is defined as physically or psychologically. Used to be that the standards came from religious sources, which are today thought of as mystical and therefore less reliable. I don't know what Xians believe, but I know that Jews believe that if something was ordained by G-d, it's what's good for humanity, and we don't know why, though we can explain it away - it wouldn't be accurately why G-d ordained something. Nowadays liberals see religious sources of morality as primitive and antiquated while "fundamentalists" by your definition do not.

Maybe you're right about prayer in schools, but I do think that a spiritual influence is a positive one in a group atmosphere. This also may make the kids feel that they have a higher moral authority and make them feel unified in their recognition of eachother as G-dly beings. Meaning: G-d created all us humans, let's start the day by recognizing that and treating one another with respect. This feeling is sorely lacking in American schools because it is sorely lacking in American society, and the reason may very well be that time is not officially set aside to express this. When church is a joke (well can't blame 'em) a la Bart Simpson and Temple is a joke and all that matters are sneakers, cars, and electronic appliances, how are people supposed to find moral and spiritual meaning in their lives? You will say, it's a free country let them find it at home. But they don't. That's why people want prayer in schools. Not saying I am rah-rah about it, but it's logical.

You also said that a public school in America is not a place of worship. What makes someplace a place of worship? A cross? A menora? A round roof? THAT's a very xian outlook. Buddhists and Jews would say that everyplace is a place of worship, since G-d is everywhere!!

No, I don't think that Wyoming people are as tolerant as Californians. But tolerance is one good virtue, and there are other good virtues besides. It's not the supreme virtue in my book even if that means that some non-Jew hates me, but if he's a good father and husband and citizen, he has merit, though he is at least psychologically threatening to me. Tolerance is needed, obviously, in heterogenous societies. In homogenous (or homogenated) Wisconsin (or Wyoming), it's not as important. This obviously does not mean that we should kill someone we can't tolerate. That is to say that on the coasts, due to large numbers of immigrants and social movements of people (ie blacks moved to Cali from the South since in the Wild West they needed settlers and cared less about race, Puerto Ricans to NY since they needed workers in factories) tolerance is NECESSARY, not so in middle America. In a way it's nothing to be proud of. This is modern rural society vs. modern urban society. Not one is INTRINSCALLY better. It's just a need filled in order to prevent mass social disorder -- and sometimes that order cracks and breaks down as in Rodney King riots, riots in Chicago in the sixties, etc. etc.

And by the way, saying that you only care about what happens in Israel
completely invalidates any point you were trying to make.

Well, I enjoy debating just for truth's sake, but it'd be a lie to say that I am concerned with internal American politics so much more than my own interest's worth. In general, I think that America is a great country and Americans are good people for the most part, but whether it's you worrrying about tolerance or some Xian born again worrying about abortion since he doesn't want people to "go to hell" or whatever, we are all interested in covering our own back.

Yet, I do truly believe that the Arabs are the new world threat as was communism in the past and before that Nazism. The reason why is that they have tons of oil money, they are nutty religious (and not the mostly harmless way of the Xian fundamentalists -- let's face it, the worst they'll do is try to convert you FOR NOW), and they want to make the whole world Muslim. Besides that they are spread all over the Middle East, north and central Africa, Pakistan, and now Europe. They like to use terrorism. Again, they have money. This is scary.

Now, I really, really, DON'T know if Bush is doing the right thing in Iraq, because it seems a drop in the bucket. But these people are soon gonna have nuclear weapons and they HATE AMERICA (jealously because the average person has no shoes and the rich sheikhs make them mad about how American rules the world -- before AND after Bush). Not a good combo. If this particular war is good, I dunno, it all seems kinda stupid, but who knows what these idiots (ex Sadaam) do that we don't know about and will never know about.
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Wow, what could I possibly say to that?

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I really don't know what to tell you anymore. Your politics just seem highly reactionary. Again you missed my point about religion. I'm not saying that people aren't allowed to be Fundamentalist Christians, I'm saying that their fundamentalism shouldn't affect the way I live my life. For example, Mr. Bush just announced his plan to select Dr. W. David Hager to head up the FDA's Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee (most likely because he sees the "W" and says to himself, "Hey, I got one of them dealies in my name!"). The committee has not met for more than two years, during which time its charter lapsed. As a result, the Bush Administration is tasked with filling all eleven positions with new members. This position does not require Congressional approval. Now the reason why this is bad is because Dr. Hager is the author of such books as "As Jesus Cared for Women: Restoring Women Then and Now" and "Stress and the Woman's Body" in which he suggests that women who suffer from PMS should seek help from reading the bible and praying. This man is going to be in charge of birth control? What the fuck? Now there is a decision influenced by religion that definitely should not be. This directly affects my life. We're talking abstinence only sex education, no more public funding for places like planned parenthood or anywhere else that dispenses free condoms, teenage pregnancy, babies having babies, overpopulation, consumption of all the Earth's natural resources ending in the end of the world as we know it. Creationism my ass, more like destructionism. I just coined a word, how about that?

I completely understand that the first American law books were written with basic religious tenets built in, but the founding fathers also had the foresight to include a separation of church and state for a very specific reason: they knew not everyone was the same religion and regardless of what the majority was, they wanted EVERYONE to feel as though they actually had a say notwithstanding their religious beliefs.

Founding fathers rising from the dead? What? Are they being resurrected? Like Jesus? I see they've gotten to you as well.

It's really hard for me to believe the things that you're saying. Racism is OK as long as it's behind someone's back? If it's not really hurting anyone, it's OK to be bigot? Those sound like things I say when I'm trying to be rude and vulgar in a comedic effort.

By the way, that wasn't my definition of fundamentalism, I copied and pasted it from Merriam-Webster, you know, them folk that make them learnin' books with the words in 'em.

Wait, never mind, I just figured it out. You are a religious fundamentalist. It might not be a destructive or societally detrimental fundamentalism, but it does, in fact, make it pointless for me to argue with you. Whatever I say doesn't matter because it hasn't been ordained by God.

On that note, I will end with a joke: What did the Jewish child molester say to the little girl? "Hey little girl, wanna buy some candy?"
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I just can't believe this is my kin saying things like this. It truly boggles my mind.

I didn't know my sister liked the right wing. I'm a breast and thigh kind of guy.

This is the continuation of the family feud I've been having with my sister.

This is her reply to my e-mail:

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Well, Marc, you're very articulate.

 Anyway, I don't really care if gay people can marry eachother in America since it's not like it's a religious country where religious rules make up the laws, yet, I think that religious beliefs (of let's say, fundamentalist xians or whomever) are not an illegitamate influence on what laws should and shouldn't be passed, just as your or someone else's secular/agnostic/atheist/humanist/free-thinker/utilitarian beliefs are those to influence which laws should be passed. There are people who believe, for example, that having sex with children is okay. Now, let's say the kid is 10 and they've been exposed, they know what they're doing. Some ten year olds are more mature than sixteen year olds. Where do you draw these lines? And in a democracy, you draw them wherever the majority wants.

I don't think that anything is wrong with praying in public schools if it is said quietly, not in unison, so everyone can pray to their own God or not pray. Nothing is wrong with spirituality for kids or adults. It's a good value as long as it's tolerant. Again, if you are a democrat, you have to do what the majority wants and I think that that's okay.

Okay, okay, HALF of Cali isn't Republican. Only 40àWhat I mean to say is that a LARGE percentage of Californians are conservative, not like everyone is PC and lives in SF and wears Birkensocks and smokes weed. BTW conscientious objectors usually object to War, not voting. Which category do you fall into?

Hello, unfortunately, blacks still get called niggers by Californian white trash, too. Just not in public. I agree that Californication rules, but that doesn't mean that the middle states are not tolerant to the extent of live and let live. IF that doesn't mean "accepting" everyone wholeheartedly, there is no crime in that.

Hello, Bush supporters fit into the white trash category? what about the 17 mile drive (Monterey) or Nob Hill or Beverly Hills category? Rich industrialists/big agriculturalists/stockbrokers? Warmongerers? When in 30 years you'll be swearing allegiance to Mohammed, you'd be a warmonger too. Not that Bush's or any Republican has good domestic policy. They suck at that as do the Democrats with foreign, for the most part. It's yin and yang all the way with those two.

My jewish black lesbian eskimo friends all live in Kentucky. They all tell me that it's finger-licking good. So there.

(all agree that they'd rather live in california, washington, oregon, new york, new jersey or anywhere in new england than somewhere in kentucky.)

Love
Tabitha, Your I Only Care about what's going to happen to Israel because soon some neo-Nazis in Visalia are gonna kick your ass outta Cali and you'll end up on my doorstep with your Druze guitar sister
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Oh no she didn't. So I says to Tabitha, I says:

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You obviously missed my point in its entirety.

Fundamentalist ANYTHING influencing law is the most illegitimate influence there ever was.

Main Entry: fun·da·men·tal·ism
Function: noun
1 a often capitalized: a movement in 20th century Protestantism emphasizing the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching b: the beliefs of this movement c: adherence to such beliefs 2: a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles

The very essence of this country is supposed to be freedom. Read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I know you have, you're a university graduate. I understand the whole democracy with the majority wins and whatnot, but fundamentalism is completely unconstitutional. It doesn't matter that this country is just a bit more than half full of Jesus freaks, they are not allowed to use Jesus as a basis for governmental decisions that affect non-believers. Think about this, if Fundamentalist Christians had their way, you wouldn't have your poli-sci degree from UCLA because a woman's supposed to be in the home making babies and cooking dinner. Fundamentalist Christians are the ones that blow up abortion clinics and you want their influence in the American legal system? (I'm not even going to address the 10 year old fucking because that's just a ludicrous point to even bring up and it insults my debate skills.)

I agree that nothing is wrong with spirituality for kids or adults. But why can't they pray at home? A public school in America is not a place of worship. There is plenty of time to pray at home and it doesn't need to be done in school. I don't think anything more can be said on the subject, it's clearly cut and dry.

Do you really think that people in Wyoming are as tolerant as the people in California? Not "there are racist people in California just like there are in Wyoming" but more like "in Wyoming, a kid was murdered for being gay and most people that live there don't think it's a big deal and those kids that murdered Matthew Shepard just went a little too far." If you really believe that the levels of hate and tolerance are the same in California that they are in Middle America, you are severely out of touch, not just with foreign affairs, but with reality.

Those rich folks in Monterey and Nob Hill and Beverly Hills that support Bush more often than not fit into the racist category. They are usually closet bigots. I'm well aware of the people that support Bush purely on the economical standpoint where they get tax cuts, but I have $17 in the bank and it's harder than ever before to get a job in this country, let alone one that pays a living wage, so fuck those guys.

And by the way, saying that you only care about what happens in Israel completely invalidates any point you were trying to make.

And by the way again, the traditional definition of a conscientious objector is someone that opposes going to war or bearing arms for moral or religious reasons. In the case of a president like Mr. Bush, you can equate voting for him as your support for a war that is definitely against my morals.

In conclusion, you are wrong.

Love,
Marc
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Ohhhhhh snap! You want some aloe for that burn?

People should really just accept everything I say as the Gospel Truth.

So my sister reads my "I won't say I told you so..." blog and sends this message to my mom:

"oh to be young
 
tolerant cali? half of the pop of ca is republican and if not in sf or la --- faaaaat  i know -- i toured around with binyamin & many were not out of staters. he should also know that suvs dont go with midwest trash -- try pickup trucks 
 
& is marc a gay-rights activist? not supporting gay marriage does not make you intolerant
 
are all people who don't live on the coasts white trash? marc should check his stock of x-s     sarah jean & bee tranh come to mind  -- a cheater whose sister is a tripper and whose family no doubt has jerry springer guest candidates & one who has her own nude website -- oh but i forgot she's not white so ok
the following line seems to contradict the w hollywood san fran comment

 come on
> now, grow some balls you sissy fairies."
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That's not OK. That's not OK at all. She's supposed to agree with everything I say just like everyone else does. So I sent her this:

Come on now. Supporting gay rights or not has nothing to do with activism. It's a simple question of "what the fuck do you care?" Seriously, in a country as large as America why can't gay people get married and enjoy the same rights, insurance benefits, tax exemptions, etc as anyone else? In theory, this country is a secular nation and we are supposed to have a separation of church and state. Saying you're opposed to gay marriage is tantamount to saying that you want children praying in public schools and having supreme court decisions decided by the King James Version of the Holy Bible. Bullshit.

Half of California is Republican? No, 44% of the voter turnout voted Republican. I can guarantee you that a good number of those people aren't actually Republican and you must still factor in all the stoners, lazy bastards, illegal immigrants, indifferent parties, non-partisan citizens and conscientious objectors that didn't vote. I'd say that it would put the state's actual Republican population at around 38% and that's quite a large margin.

California is an extremely tolerant state when you put it next to Colorado or Texas or anything else in the middle of the country. You do realize that black people still get called niggers in a derogatory manner in the South. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen in California, because it does, but on a much smaller scale. The Golden State has long been a haven for the freaks and the weirdos because they are accepted here, if not fully, but enough so they can live their lives in semi-peace as opposed to living in fear of being beaten up or shot or lynched like in many other parts of the country.

Granted my relationship history has been a bit "colored" to put it mildly. But Sarah Jean? Yeah, she's trash... from Colorado. Bee was just one of the freaks and weirdos that are accepted here. You really have to see things on a grander scale. Sure California has its share of bigots and rednecks but the percentage is extremely lower than the middle of the country. You don't live here so you don't know, but Bush supporters more often than not fit into at least one racist/bigot/redneck/white trash/warmongering category.

Jewish Black Lesbian Eskimos all agree that they'd rather live in California, Washington, Oregon, New York, New Jersey or anywhere in New England than somewhere in Kentucky.

Love,
Your well informed and extremely socially conscious non-voting brother,
Marc
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I sure told her.

It's not the INS that makes me run for the border.

Dear Taco Bell,
Thank you for the double decker taco. Thank you to the big fat stoner that invented it. Thank you to the racial stereotyping advertising agency that thought of the now defunct talking chihuahua and the "run for the border" slogan. Thank you to the marketing executives that made up the Big Bell Value Menu. Thank you to the 19 year old Mexican kid that stayed up all night to make sure that the drive though is open 24 hours. Thank you to the minimum wage "cook" that assembled my chicken soft taco from pre-made ingredients. Thank you for bastardizing an entire culture's eating habits for my culinary delight. Thank you for selling a huge plastic cup full of soda with every combo. Thank you for making said huge plastic cup fit in most cup holders. But most importantly, thank you for taking my wildest sexual fantasies and turning them into the caramel apple empanada.

Until my arteries fully clog and my bowels collapse,
Marc

I won't say I told you so, but I will make the face.

Wah wah wah, you're all soooooo surprised. Really? Why? Do you really think the rest of the country is like tolerant California? Have you even been to any of the "red" states (named for the necks of the people no doubt)? They don't have areas like West Hollywood or San Francisco where people accept them. Most of America is uninformed violent trash. Don't believe me? Make the NFL two teams and see what happens.

We're all thinking it but I'll be the one to say it (much like that one time where I told you that voting doesn't matter): secession.

I know it's been tried before and there was that whole war and all, but I really think we can make it work now. I mean, they don't want us and we don't want them and we don't want to suffer the global wrath and all so it seems like a perfectly viable solution. See, it didn't work the first time, but at that time in our country's history the voting actually did work. Now that it doesn't and our "leader" doesn't actually represent the wants and needs of this great country, so to, the secession issue should be reexamined.

Sure, I know what you're all thinking: "What if there's a war? Aren't all the country's weapons in the red states?" Well, yeah, kind of. But there's an easy answer for that: world allies. Every nation in the world would ally themselves with us. i'm pretty confident that this is the only way to save our own asses. Don't be lazy kids, throughout world history people fought for their freedom and your bitch asses think you can just punch a hole in a piece of paper for yours? Come on now, grow some balls you sissy fairies.

While I'm at it, I will suggest a few possible names for the seceded America: Awesome America, Super Fantastic Happy Fun Time America (that'll be sure to get Japan on our side), Stem Cell America, We Don't Like Jesus As Much As The Other America, The Not As Fat America and my very favorite Canada II: The Sequel.

OK, I'm done now.

Voting and you.

There's a lot of pressure on everyone to go out and vote in the upcoming election. You know, after all, come the day after the election, your life will be drastically different. Wait, is that really true? Will the money in my wallet no longer be valid if my guy doesn't win? Will I no longer be able to take some bitch I knocked up to la clínica médica para los asesinos del bebé in Tijuana for the cheaper abortion? Will Ralph Nader finally realize that America just isn't ready for a third choice (hell, we can't even decide if we like war or not)? Of course not. Now if you look at this chart, you can see that unless you live in one of those tossup states more commonly referred to as "swing states," your vote doesn't really matter. For example, in my state, California, the electorates are already assumed to be Kerry supporters. California's 55 electoral votes are going to Senator John Kerry. Now you might have some people tell you "if everyone thought like that, blah blah blah, I'm a self-righteous jerkoff that thinks my political beliefs are better than yours." You can tell that asshole, "FUCK OFF! I'M NOT VOTING!" and be confident in the fact that your vote doesn't make a difference and when you vote it's just an excuse to wear a little american flag sticker that says "I voted" on your shirt. "If everyone thought like that" Yeah right, and if I got dealt a royal flush every hand, I'd never lose. The chances of both of those things happening are about the same. It was made very clear in the 2000 presidential election that the popular vote doesn't matter. People finally got a taste of what the electoral college was. Idiots. Were you all sleeping in that part of history class? Don't give me shit because I don't believe that my vote matters. If you actually look at the electoral college and the system of representative democracy in this country and you can understand it on more than a superficial level and actually understand the statistical improbabilities of your vote making a difference, you'd realize that I'm right.

I'm not voting.

Marc